The Case for Killing Granny

This article brought out some very good points.

1. Massachusetts's program is already going broke, which is exactly what will happen with federal health care as currently proposed.

2. Our health care system is the envy of the world because of all the new breakthroughs, which will disappear under the proposed system, because there will be no profit in it to encourage companies to develop new drugs, tests, treatments, etc.

3. Living wills need to be discussed. The only problem with the proposal in the house bill, was it was mandated, and they were going to set up panels to determine treatment plans for end of life - hence the death panel rumor. Once government takes over something, they have proven they cannot run it properly, and this would be no different. If they had left the original proposal alone, just to pay doctors if the patient wanted to see the doctor about a living will, there would not have been an issue.

While everyone agrees we need some reform, this wholesale takeover of the health care system is too much. We need to start slow, and lets solve some of the problems with medicare, medicaid and social security first, as well as tort reform, and see what the results are first before we start changing everything else.

Finally, the proposed health care bills are simply a violation of the constitution and the bill of rights. If you have any doubts, you need to go to this website and read the info from a retired constitutional law attorney. You will see how scary this proposal really is.

http://michaelconnelly.viviti.com/

I agree that living wills need to be discussed but what happens to those who sign one and lie there for days before dying? My husband's grandmother had a stroke, she had a living will, so nothing heroic was done, but she laid there for days before dying.

And what about people with Alzhiemer's, they are alot of times relatively healthy, but not there to function mentally is it fair for them to live that way, when before the disease took over they said they would rather die than be without their mind?

My dad has Alzhiemer's and I am his main caregiver, occassionally my siblings help, but not often, I would much rather have him pass peacefully in his sleep then to suffer the way he is. It is a cruel way to be. To be alive, but no way of controlling anything because your day to day way of living is impossible since you can't remember how to do something as simple as combing your hair or remembering that you need to eat. When I brought my dad to live with my family and I he had been in the hospital for malnutrition. He had meals delivered to him, but no stayed to make sure he ate and most of the time he gave it to his dog or threw it away. I didn't know he was doing it since he was living 500 miles away in Canada and I live in the States. I got lucky his doctors called and told me they would put him in a care facility unless we found someone to live with him or move him in with someone. Luckily his cousin was able to stay with him until the roads cleared (two mountain passes between us) and I could go get him. He was in Canada and yes they have gov't ran health care, but it isn't always the best.

My aunt died from full blown cancer because the oncologist in her area couldn't see her for 6 months and her regular dr. wouldn't order any chemo or radiation, since it was the other dr's job.

There has to be a compromise some where and I hope we find it soon. 

I agree troubled american, start slow. There are many things the government fix about health care without resorting to an omnibus bill that perports to fix things once and for all. Every government run program that starts out like that becomes overblown with waste, fraud and bureaucrasy. The President makes a case against his own plans when he points out that Medicare/Medicaid is loaded with waste and fraud.

Every government program is in trouble. Besides the ones cited above, we have heard horror stories about the VA; we all know Social Security is going broke, the post office is in trouble, Amtrak, and others.

The President and liberal members of congress point to the Canadian system as a shining example of how a program should be run, but as jackiemm pointed out, it has some serious flaws which would be unacceptable to most Americans. I used to live in a border city and the hospital parking lots were always 1/3 Ontario cars.

HR3200 doesn't call for "death panels". No sane politician would use the term, but the sections of the bill dealing with end-of-life issues can easily become exactly that.

Question.  How often does the family keep "granny" alive for their own (selfish) reasons.  When the quality of life becomes such that there is none, why prolong that life.  Having cared for my mother for 6 years, I am certain there came a point when she no longer wished to be alive even though she was moderately lucid.  She eventually died in her sleep.  I believe this was due more to her mental state of mind rather than due to any physiological break down.

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Wait a minute, i though this subject was a fantasy whipped up by the extreme right wing nuts to shut down obama health care plan. Now your saying doctors, families and insurance companies are proposing it. And it make the front page of MSNBC from a Newsweek Special article. Sounds like somebody has thought about this a little to much. I really can't help but think it accually is in Obama's health care plan. It hiding along side the illegal immigrents free health care proposal that's not suppost to exist either. I think Obama lied!! How about you? Go Joe Wilson!!

I know that Doctors are basically afraid to even mention to a patient that death is imminent. They avoid telling a patient that there is no cure for them, or that, what they have is taking their life.

My Mother-in-law was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer that had metastasized to her liver. Because she avoided the question of "how long" her doctor did too. Instead they spoke of treatment, and chemo was the only one available to her. She endured 6 separate treatments of 5 week twice weekly IV treatments. Each time she became so sick (vomit and diarhea) she became dehydrated and was admitted to the hospital to have fluid IV to rehydrate her. Needless to say she only became weaker and weaker.

They had diagnosed her in January of 07 and passed in Dec of 07. She did not enjoy her last year, she was too sick from "treatments". And all that time the doctor did not tell her that all that treatment was not going to save her life....

End of life discussions is hard. But it is one that Doctors need to learn to discuss with patients. And they need to explain to the patient that some treatments will impinge on quality of life so much that any benefit would not be worth it.

Did he want to make more money? Possibly. Did he do her justice or serve her well? Not in my eyes. Would she chose differently, I think so.

Watched my mother whither away for EIGHT years. Couldn't talk, didn't recognize me. Had to be turned in bed, soiled diapers, ate baby food. I traveled out of state to see her when I could, doc told me I was doing it for me, not her, for she didn't know me. Would come back home really tore up, pray that God would take her quietly in the night. Then feel guilty as hell about it. Told my wife that if that ever happened to me, strip me naked, give me a kiss, point me in the direction of the great outdoors, and tell me to take a nice LONG walk. Mother's demise, with NO hope for recovery, drained life-savings for her to reside in misery.

The only saving grace was she had the presence of mind, before she lost her mind, to draw up a living will stating NO artificial life support. The simpliest body functions like swallowing food..her brain could not figure that out. They wanted to ram tubes down her throat but thank God I had that document. In the end, they gave her pain meds to endure the first 1-2 days of starvation...then she just faded away. To die with dignity and grace is what everyone should hope for. RIP mom...see you again

We as Americans must face the true and real facts.

There arent doctors and doctors offices anymore. Every hospital is owned by a corporation other then the few private and the government run establishments.

United Health Care, Wellstar, Tanner...

Corporations are in business to make money. Most of the payments that come from our healthcare system are medicare payments made by the tax payer. Corporations know that they can lobby the government to look the other way as they raise the cost of health care 50% over 10 years. What do you think theyve done for the last 30 years?

Corporations dont care about the uninsured. If 20% of a market isnt willing to buy your product then the other 80% will. Especially if your allowed to advertise that the other 20%, the uninsured, are more likely to DIE... Makes you want to join the 80% doesnt it.

So the corporations have become so brazen that they have lobbied our ignorant government into mandating that we all join the great insured!!!

Sounds like a plot only a evil corporate raider could envision...

Conservatives have been brainwashed into thinking that they are somehow in danger if the healthcare system goes universal. In reality your only being managed into backing a republican led initiative that is the same as the democrat one except the corporations get 100% control.

Democrats have been brainwashed into thinking that Obama is offering universal healthcare... All he is really offering you is another unregulated bill that you get to pay every month. Who do you liberals think are the rich and powerful behind Obama?

So the truth is that the corporations will never let healthcare become reformed. They have way to much to gain from what our government will pay from medicare,

End of life is a personal choice, not something to be mandated by the government. Most of us have had the same experiences pointed out in the comments. I did with my Mother. I had to make a choice; I made the one I thought best for my Mother and to this day, I still feel guilt. I have a living will, and hopefully I will be the one who says "it's time", not the government.

If someone wants to die, more power to them, Let them. Regardless of what the family thinks.

But, if they do not want to, get over it and help them live.

We already have living wills, and end of life care decisions. What is being proposed seems more like encouraging people to want to die. That I have a problem with.

You know, my sweet little 89 year old neighbor really believes that President Obama is going to literally hook her up to a machine and euthenize her like you put an animal down. She believes she may be put in a FEMA concentration camp before that even happens as well as taking our guns away. My point to this reply is this....at what time have we become so politically callaused that we would like to take what could be the last best years of an 89 year old woman and scare the pajeebees out of her. I tried to talk to her about all of it and she was having nothing to do with it because certain news reporters on "FOX" had proven that it is true. Where is the responsibility of our media and our congressmen to just report, discuss, and conclude only the truths about legislation that has been introduced. You can tell it is being discussed in her church as well because it is the only place she goes. The issue is she doesn't even own a gun so you know this is talk she has heard. She also is responsible for a mentally disabled child who is now 51 years old and still living with her. She does have family but most live at least 4 hours or more away. My point is this....this is someone who needs to have more than just end of life counseling and thank god she has family but how many seniors have no one, and I mean no one to help make these decisions. After my mother was on life support at 53 years old for juvenile diabetes for over a week, my father made the decision to "pull the plug on her" as senator Grassly puts it and that was truly a very tough decision for him. But what if she had no one to help make that decision prior? This is an important issue all the way from living wills, etc. and to use our elderly or terminally ill just for political gain is a down right sin! If you are really concerned then you will have good rational discussions. Any thing else including malicious comments are just being pissy because your party lost an election. I have always voted more independant than not but at this particular time I am disgusted with the Republican party. It is so much harder to fight an issue with an honest debate. You are honestly the party of fear!

I have been wondering for a long time now why healthcare is so expensive, this article actually mentioned some of the reason's. It is a shame that the blame is on the elderly, they have been paying most of there lives for this. I watched my mother in the hospital while she was dying and the fire in her eyes when some Dr. would walk in, not her Dr. but some intern and she would sit up and demand them to get out, embarassed I would be like MOM, but she knew they were there so they could send a bill to Medicare.........to this day I will remember this when my time comes. Thanks Mom

It is imperative, in my opinion, that everyone have a health care power of attorney and a living will. As a nurse I have seen too many dying people whose families squabbled over whether mom or dad should be resuscitated or put on a ventilator or not while mom or dad was lying there suffering and the doctor could not move forward with treatment til they made up their minds.

A Do Not Resuscitate order does NOT mean withholding care. Every effort is made to keep the patient comfortable and pain free til the end.

And just think of the money we'd save on Medicare Part D if we cut off pain killers so that life is unbearable, then they'll thank us for the death squads.

Oh, that's a myth isn't it?

If anyone is going to end the life of a person it should be the family not the government or some nut case who does work for the government.

Is this just about end of life, or when it's time for a hip replacement or prostate issue who's going to make the call??? Dr. , family, some panel?????

If Obama wants it, newsweek has to like it.